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	<title>Comments on: A Joining of the Tribes</title>
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	<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/</link>
	<description>Programming People, People Programming and other Misadventures</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:50:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Developers and Sysadmins, Managers and Engineers: Unite &#124; Heroix Blog</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Developers and Sysadmins, Managers and Engineers: Unite &#124; Heroix Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-126</guid>
		<description>[...] roles have been separated for far too long. Andrew Shafer blogged about the need for a &#8220;joining of the tribes&#8221; back in July 2008, and that post stuck with me ever since. I&#8217;ve been guilty of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] roles have been separated for far too long. Andrew Shafer blogged about the need for a &#8220;joining of the tribes&#8221; back in July 2008, and that post stuck with me ever since. I&#8217;ve been guilty of [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Agile Infrastructure &#171; fate = will &#38;&#38; choice &#124;&#124; circumstance</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Agile Infrastructure &#171; fate = will &#38;&#38; choice &#124;&#124; circumstance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-66</guid>
		<description>[...] who has essentially crossed the Developer-Sysadmin divide (I&#8217;m not sure he is a chief of the new tribe, but he&#8217;s definitely a shaman), Luke became frustrated that he couldn&#8217;t write Puppet [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who has essentially crossed the Developer-Sysadmin divide (I&#8217;m not sure he is a chief of the new tribe, but he&#8217;s definitely a shaman), Luke became frustrated that he couldn&#8217;t write Puppet [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: links for 2008-07-16 : Bob Plankers, The Lone Sysadmin</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-07-16 : Bob Plankers, The Lone Sysadmin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-61</guid>
		<description>[...] A Joining of the Tribes « fate = will &amp;&amp; choice &#124;&#124; circumstance &#8220;in this world of highly available, scaled and performant web applications, developers have to think about operations and admins have to think about the applications.&#8221; Been saying this for a while, that all good apps teams need a good sysadmin, too. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A Joining of the Tribes « fate = will &#38;&#38; choice || circumstance &#8220;in this world of highly available, scaled and performant web applications, developers have to think about operations and admins have to think about the applications.&#8221; Been saying this for a while, that all good apps teams need a good sysadmin, too. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: links for 2008-07-15 : Bob Plankers, The Lone Sysadmin</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-07-15 : Bob Plankers, The Lone Sysadmin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-60</guid>
		<description>[...] A Joining of the Tribes « fate = will &amp;&amp; choice &#124;&#124; circumstance &#8220;in this world of highly available, scaled and performant web applications, developers have to think about operations and admins have to think about the applications.&#8221; Been saying this for a while, that all good apps teams need a good sysadmin, too.    &gt;&gt; Comments &#124; ShareThis [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A Joining of the Tribes « fate = will &#38;&#38; choice || circumstance &#8220;in this world of highly available, scaled and performant web applications, developers have to think about operations and admins have to think about the applications.&#8221; Been saying this for a while, that all good apps teams need a good sysadmin, too.    &gt;&gt; Comments | ShareThis [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Atkins</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Atkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-59</guid>
		<description>I shared this with our tech team; great stuff. I&#039;m definitely more of the ops tribe; only mildly interested in development theory. java, .Net, perl, php...whatever gets the job done. Bottom line is user exprience and whether things work reliably. But it is a constant balancing act--to solve the problems that are relevent and stay 1 step ahead (not 2 or 3) of requirements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shared this with our tech team; great stuff. I&#8217;m definitely more of the ops tribe; only mildly interested in development theory. java, .Net, perl, php&#8230;whatever gets the job done. Bottom line is user exprience and whether things work reliably. But it is a constant balancing act&#8211;to solve the problems that are relevent and stay 1 step ahead (not 2 or 3) of requirements.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: People Over Process &#187; links for 2008-07-12</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>People Over Process &#187; links for 2008-07-12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 07:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-57</guid>
		<description>[...] A Joining of the Tribes « fate = will &amp;&amp; choice &#124;&#124; circumstance &#8220;Operations is development. It’s going to happen&#8230;&#8221; (tags: via:im puppet operations developer/operations itmanagement) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A Joining of the Tribes « fate = will &amp;&amp; choice || circumstance &#8220;Operations is development. It’s going to happen&#8230;&#8221; (tags: via:im puppet operations developer/operations itmanagement) [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Puppet news links at btm.geek</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Puppet news links at btm.geek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-55</guid>
		<description>[...] Stories about people using puppet: Digg, Google, iLike. SA vs Devs. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Stories about people using puppet: Digg, Google, iLike. SA vs Devs. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan McLellan</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan McLellan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-54</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a sysadmin. I usually use the IANAD line to avoid fixing people&#039;s code when they think it&#039;s a system problem but I have to prove it isn&#039;t. 

My buddy at work, the lead developer came into my office one day and said that I am a developer, because I had more code checked in to the puppet repository (git) than most of the developers had checked into the product&#039;s repository.

So now there&#039;s a little yellow piece of sticky note on my name badge outside my door that says &quot;Puppet Developer&quot;, taped over where it says &quot;Systems Administrator&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a sysadmin. I usually use the IANAD line to avoid fixing people&#8217;s code when they think it&#8217;s a system problem but I have to prove it isn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>My buddy at work, the lead developer came into my office one day and said that I am a developer, because I had more code checked in to the puppet repository (git) than most of the developers had checked into the product&#8217;s repository.</p>
<p>So now there&#8217;s a little yellow piece of sticky note on my name badge outside my door that says &#8220;Puppet Developer&#8221;, taped over where it says &#8220;Systems Administrator&#8221;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Kersten</title>
		<link>http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/a-joining-of-the-tribes/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Kersten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stochasticresonance.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-53</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting this came up at Velocity.

At WWDC this year there were a few of us sysadmins who seemed to have all come to the same conclusion at around the same time, namely that sysadmins need to learn more from software development.

I&#039;ve been trying to apply the same mindset to large scale client management lately with a framework to run unit tests on candidate client images.  Why don&#039;t sysadmins use unit tests more? Why don&#039;t we do peer review more?

For me I think it was moving to Google that led to this epiphany, as this is literally the first company I&#039;ve ever worked for whose primary business is software development, so we already have all these tools in place that are awesome for sysadmins, like &lt;a&gt;Mondrian&lt;/a&gt;.

An interesting point a friend made was that the benefits of peer review on all your scripts are indisputable, but if you simply don&#039;t work somewhere where you have a group of peers who can review all your work (and I&#039;ve been there), then the best thing you can do is get approval to blog about it and publish scripts externally.

People like correcting mistakes in blog posts and suggesting improvements. If you put your work out in public, it&#039;s not quite the same as immediate local peer review,  but you can collect many of the same benefits, and that&#039;s just from a purely selfish point of view, let alone the more altruistic aspects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting this came up at Velocity.</p>
<p>At WWDC this year there were a few of us sysadmins who seemed to have all come to the same conclusion at around the same time, namely that sysadmins need to learn more from software development.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been trying to apply the same mindset to large scale client management lately with a framework to run unit tests on candidate client images.  Why don&#8217;t sysadmins use unit tests more? Why don&#8217;t we do peer review more?</p>
<p>For me I think it was moving to Google that led to this epiphany, as this is literally the first company I&#8217;ve ever worked for whose primary business is software development, so we already have all these tools in place that are awesome for sysadmins, like <a>Mondrian</a>.</p>
<p>An interesting point a friend made was that the benefits of peer review on all your scripts are indisputable, but if you simply don&#8217;t work somewhere where you have a group of peers who can review all your work (and I&#8217;ve been there), then the best thing you can do is get approval to blog about it and publish scripts externally.</p>
<p>People like correcting mistakes in blog posts and suggesting improvements. If you put your work out in public, it&#8217;s not quite the same as immediate local peer review,  but you can collect many of the same benefits, and that&#8217;s just from a purely selfish point of view, let alone the more altruistic aspects.</p>
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